Trailer: Looks Good on Paper! Why We're Rethinking Hiring - Andrew Wood & Anita Chauhan (Episode 1)

Welcome to Looks Good on Paper! The podcast that's flipping the script on traditional hiring. Join hosts Anita Chauhan and Andrew "Woody" Wood as we explore, prod, and encourage a deeper look into current hiring practices (and learn from the greats along the way!).

In this introductory episode, we set the stage for the podcast's mission by discussing why CVs—dating back to 1483—and the so-called "perfect candidate" can be misleading. We break down three core issues with traditional CV-focused hiring: they're inherently inaccurate (with 75% of people embellishing their experience), they're subject to significant observer bias, and they're increasingly being generated by AI.

Throughout this series, we'll be speaking with industry experts to uncover how skills, potential, real-world experience, and adaptability should be the focus when making hiring decisions. Our goal isn't to eliminate CVs entirely, but to help organizations move away from outdated hiring models toward a more holistic approach to recruitment that identifies the whole person behind that piece of paper.

Tune in twice monthly for concise, actionable conversations that will help you challenge the norm and rewrite the rules of hiring.

Make sure to subscribe below! 

Show Resources

• CV Free Toolkit: cvfree.me/join - Break up with the CV and get everything you need to modernize your hiring approach with skills-based assessments
• Willo: willo.video - The most cost-effective way to screen candidates at scale. Interview candidates anywhere & at any time
• Connect with the Hosts:
  • Andrew "Woody" Wood: linkedin.com/in/andrew-douglas-wood
  • Anita Chauhan: linkedin.com/in/anitachauhan

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 35:00 The Problem with Traditional Hiring Practices
• 3:33:00 Core Issues with CVs
• 6:38:00 What to Expect from Future Episodes
• 8:51:00 Outro

Transcript

Woody: 0:01

Welcome to Looks Good on Paper, the podcast that's flipping the script on traditional hiring. We're your hosts. I'm Woody.

Anita: 0:09

And I'm Anita.

Woody: 0:10

And in each episode we dive into why CVS and the so-called perfect candidate can be misleading. We'll be speaking with industry experts to uncover how skills, potential, and real world experience should be the focus when making hiring decisions. We are here to challenge the norm and rewrite the rules of hiring. So let's get started.

Anita: 0:35

Welcome to Looks Good on Paper, the podcast where we challenge the conventional hiring process and really deep dive explore into why, what looks good on a CV, doesn't really tell the full story. I'm your host, Anita Chauhan, and I'm joined by my co-host Woody.

Woody: 0:52

Yeah. Hey everyone. I'm, uh, I'm excited to kick things off and really this first episode is diving into why we've started this podcast and, and why we believe there is a real problem. I. With traditional hiring practices and why something that was invented in the 14 hundreds should probably be left there, uh, and how we can challenge the status quo. Really learning from industry experts to help you build a CV or resume free process and ultimately show you things don't always look good on paper, and you can find a better way to hire better people.

Anita: 1:32

It's true. I think that's really crazy, right? Thinking that, uh, we've been using something since the 18, the 14 hundreds, 1483, and we still think it's the best way to go about stuff even in the new world. Right. And I think like that's kind of the basis of why this podcast came to be. We know that the hiring landscape's changing. We know that it's harder than ever to find the right fits for your team and the roles. And I think that just through both of our experiences and talking to tons of talent leaders, we're seeing this as an ongoing problem.

Woody: 2:06

Yeah, and I think the, the, there's a common agreement amongst talent leaders that actually CVS and resumes aren't that great. And part of the real challenge is helping hiring managers understand that and, and understand that. You know, a tick box of having experience at a certain organization or having gone to a certain red brick university or college doesn't necessarily mean that this person is gonna deliver what you need them to deliver. And time is actually a really terrible indicator of somebody's success. So we really wanna uncover, you know, how can these organizations move away from that traditional model. And identify the whole person behind that piece of paper.

Anita: 2:53

Yeah, I think that's really, it's really exciting that we have some really good movement towards that too.'cause we have built our entire hiring systems, mostly around the cv. So learning from other people about how they're trying to, like, like we said, flipping the script around that process, you know, like. Seeing that, you know, a list or a long line of experiences, your past jobs, all of those things don't actually make you the perfect fit. Like what about things like your cultural fit, your ability to adapt? And I think we talked about this in the past, this idea of coachability, which is so huge, right? Especially as if you hope to grow in a role for a candidate.

Woody: 3:33

Yeah, absolutely. And I think what's really interesting about the problem with traditional hiring now is. I mean, if you look at CVS in and of themselves, there's kind of three core issues that, that they've got. One is that they're inaccurate because according to business insiders, 75% of people lie on their cvs, or as some people would say, embellish the truth, which I think is probably just misleading in and of itself. Just be honest, it's a lie. It's okay. Everybody does it. Secondly, they're, you know, inaccurate and self edited. Um, documents that then have heaps of bias from the eye of the observer. So I am projecting my thoughts onto your lived experience on a piece of paper. Rather than looking at your skills, I'm looking at your name, your location, the school you went to, all of these things that really don't tell me anything about you and your potential. And then third and finally, right now, we are seeing a huge increase in the number of AI generated. CVS applications. You know, basically if you've got a written based application process, AI is completing it for you. And I think coming back to coachability that you mentioned. One of the key things in this new AI enabled world isn't gonna be, you know how well you can write a cv. It's gonna be how well you can coach an AI model, how well you can utilize it to augment your day to day and become super successful, and that's gonna need people that are highly adaptable. And how much can you tell that from a cv, in my opinion. You, you just can't. So I don't, I dunno what you think, Anita, but that they're the kind of core reasons why I think we need to start challenging, um, the traditional way of recruiting.

Anita: 5:24

Agreed. I, I totally read all of what you said and I think about those, those pitfalls in the process and the process that we built around how to hire. Then I think about the candidate experience, which is really raw with a lot of issues, and I hear about this a lot online when I'm reading about some, even within my own communities of a. People who are trying to look for jobs right now, working in tech for so long, seeing sweeping layoffs, things like that. It's getting harder than ever to actually stand out. So from both ends, it's not a winning game right now. And I think that there's obviously ways that can be augmented and. I think that's a big flag too, that I have to bring up here. It's not like we're looking to like throw out the CV fully, like in this, like in this conversation I wanna learn from people and from you about how people, like how talent leaders can really thoughtfully start decentering the CV from the process. We know it's valuable. I know it's one of those things that you can't just like. Throw it out the window, throw the baby out with the bath water. But it's more like building the stuff around it. So how are people doing that? What's the best way to do it? And having those conversations that help us build a better future for both ends of the hiring process.

Woody: 6:38

Yeah. And that, look, there's no, realistically, you're not gonna listen to this podcast and all of your hiring managers automatically change their opinion on whether they need a CV or not. It's about finding those followers, those believers within your organization that that wanna see. A better way of hiring. And you know, hopefully this podcast can give you some ideas around how you can find and implement those strategies that you know, people are gonna follow. And, and I think for me, that's really, I guess what listeners can expect is us to sit down with industry leaders and. Really, you know, pick into their brains of how they have gone CV free with certain roles and how much resistance they've met with hiring managers, what stories they've used to overcome that resistance. And ultimately, you know, you should be able to leave with a better idea of, okay, what can I change today that's hopefully gonna help me evolve for the future?

Anita: 7:36

Absolutely. Yeah, really looking forward to those conversations. I feel like just going straight to the source and seeing what people actually get done, because to your point, there's not one one method that's gonna work. Every company's different. Every need, every role that you're hiring for is gonna be different, so let's take it to the people that are doing it and learn from them, and I'm so excited to bring that to the community at large. Very excited

Woody: 7:58

Yeah me too. And look, thanks for joining on this first brief episode. Everyone. We're super excited, um, to, to speak to you, Anita. How often are we gonna release these, do you think?

Anita: 8:10

Twice a month. Really short, quick, actionable conversations. Uh, we're looking at just asking a few questions, the same ones across the board to every expert that sits in the hot seat and walking away with something that you as a listener might feel like you can maybe adapt and put into your existing processes.

Woody: 8:31

Amazing. So if you're looking for really long form podcasts, this probably isn't for you. If you're looking for snippets of amazing wisdom from industry leaders, uh, across the globe, really then definitely tune in next week.

Anita: 8:48

Awesome. See you all then.

Woody: 8:50

Bye

Anita: 8:51

So thanks for tuning in to Looks Good on Paper. We hope today's conversation helps you rethink what really matters when it comes to hiring. Don't forget to subscribe, share with your network, and stay tuned for more insightful discussions that are shaking up the entire hiring process. Catch us next time as we continue to challenge the status quo. Until then, remember, it's not what looks good on paper, it's what they can do.